Home Forums General DIY Pedal Discussion Inverted Polarity or “in/out of phase”

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  • #11910
    sofnwhat
    Participant

    i know there’s some good resource around, maybe already spoken of here in the forum.  i’ve built just a few successful projects thus far and looking to build a gift for a bass player.  to cut to chase, “in/out of phase” is more accurately described as inverted signal polarity?  ok.  how much of that do i need to know to build a decent project?  … or as a player?  it seems a heck of a rabbit hole and i’m a willing idiot 😉

    i just ordered the paramix and read through the build docs.  what a cool buncha anything you wanna do!  what is the terrible consequence of not knowing what “out of phase” means?  or maybe i throw the invert phase switch and my ears are better?

     

    #11914
    Billy
    Moderator

    With regard to effects pedals it’s not critically important

    Tonmann did a post on the old forum explaining how to work out if your input was in or out of phase with your output

    https://guitarpcb.webs.com/apps/forums/topics/show/13151076-tonmann-phase-determination-guide

    This is a good explanation taken from this site

    Audio waveforms are cyclical; that is, they proceed through regular cycles or repetitions. Phase is defined as how far along its cycle a given waveform is.

    The measurement of phase is given in degrees, with 360 degrees being one complete cycle.

    One concern with phase becomes apparent when mixing together two waveforms. If these waveform are “out of phase”, or delayed with respect to one another, there will be some cancellation in the resulting audio.

    This often produces what is described as a “hollow” sound.

    How much cancellation, and which frequencies it occurs at depends on the waveforms involved, and how far out of phase they are (two identical waveforms, 180 degrees out of phase, will cancel completely).

    #11922
    sofnwhat
    Participant

    thanks Billy.  that was just what i was looking for.  google had me stumbling into related, but different topics about voltage.

    #11927
    Barry
    Keymaster

    In regards to phase sometimes it boils down to perspective so what might be right for some may not be right to another. The thing is you can easily hear a difference and having a phase switch makes it easy to decide which is best for you. Also as you change out circuits (potentially changing the phase) in the loop it makes it easy to simply switch once again.

    There are many benefits of playing multiple circuits in a parallel Paramix loop.
    For example you could have two separate delays simultaneously and one will not affect the other.
    Another great example is have multiple types of Overdrive as again one will not affect the other. The prospects go on and on from there. Now add in the Blend/Mix feature and you have a Painters pallet of tone.

    There is a great video by That Pedal Show which demonstrates this.

    #11933
    Barry
    Keymaster

    Incidentally you may also want to check out our Phase Follies Guide located on the Guides Page put together by our local expert Wilkie1.

    #11980
    wilkie1
    Moderator

    I know everyone is busy building a new COMBO pedal while you are stuck at home.  So here is a neat switch you can add to give you the option of SERIES and PARALLEL wiring.

    #12255
    Big O
    Participant

    Just like a series parallel switch for guitar pickups.  Could you do a phase switch in a similar vein as in the configuration for a pickup in and out phase switch?  As below the top of the X represents the Top Lugs of an ON-ON DPDT switch, the dashes are the Middle Lugs and the bottom of the X represents the bottom lugs.

    IN -X- OUT

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